Timeline for Shia view of Sufism
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
13 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 17, 2020 at 19:04 | comment | added | Jeschu | Additional note: The Alewi Shia branch was and is in contrast to past and present Iranian Shia positively linked to Sufism and the Bektashi Order is an important part of the Alewite community. | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 14:32 | comment | added | Mozibur Ullah | @infatuated: I'll keep the distinction in mind; I wasn't saying the two are exactly the same - more that they are around the place; the physical, that is outer world is very different from our inner worlds; I've had so many discussions with a friend of mine when really we were talking about two different things - he was more interested in the inner world (batin), and I was interested in the outer world (not the outer world of the inner world (zahir)!); these days, I think the first, comes first; but I don't want to forget about the second. | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 14:28 | comment | added | infatuated | @MoziburUllah, Yes, but what Ghazali said is true for everything, whereas the hadith is talking about a special state in some believers. One should make a distinction between the general and the specific wills of Allah. | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 13:58 | comment | added | Mozibur Ullah | @infatuated: "if one seeks nearness to Me via a supererogatory worship, I will love him and I will become his ears, his eyes, his tongue, and his hand by means of which he can hear and see, and if he calls to me, I will answer him and fulfill his wishes"; I know that Al-Ghazali developed a theory of occasionalism which was a rational explanation of how the world could not be from moment to moment, everywhere, without Allahs intervention; in this sense, its both rationally and mystically true - though mystic, or rather experiential truth, is closer to the mark, as its from direct experience... | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 13:41 | comment | added | Mozibur Ullah | @infatuated: Ok, that all makes sense to me; thanks for the pointers on shia literature, I was looking for something like that; some time ago I was musing on the provenance of the word ecstasy, as coming from ek-stasis; that is the spirit coming out of stasis, into real motion; | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 13:27 | comment | added | infatuated | One critical Sufi explanation is that Hallaj couldn't safely pass behind his temporary state of ecstasy which is usually accompanied by shath, confused statements provoked by misidentification of the self with the Divine essence in the dawn of fana which risks the mystic getting carried away by his powers and visions uttering statments that are suspect of apostasy. But if he passes behind this overwhelming state (which is a great jihad in its own right) then shathiyat will wane and his speech would be similar to the safe speech of prophets. | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 13:18 | comment | added | infatuated | @MoziburUllah, there's an elaborate literature on the state of fana that you are alluding to. There are explicit references to it even in the Shia hadith literature that for Shia are on par with Prophetic hadiths. See Hadith of Qurb al-Nawafil for example. Statements such as "I am eye of Allah" has been also uttered by Ali (as) and other Shia Imams but never "I am haq (God)" precisely because they were vary of dangerous misinterpretations. | |
| Mar 10, 2020 at 10:44 | comment | added | Mozibur Ullah | @Zali9: From what I've read, Al-Hallaj was attempting to realise the Qu'ranic verse 'We are closer to him than his jugular vein' Qu'ran 50:16; thus when he said 'I am the truth', it's to be understood that he has discovered the divine spark within himself and not literally in that he is god. | |
| Mar 7, 2020 at 5:39 | comment | added | infatuated | @ZAli9, It is not that simple at all. Hallaj had several controversies. He was said to perform magic, not to follow any madhhab and declare different madhhabs to different people, the claim that he praised apostasy and Satan in his poems etc. Of course the controversy around him mostly boils down to how his statements are interpreted. But even his Sufi master, Junayd didn't approve of some of his ideas and specially his candid publications. But modern day Shia scholars are usually silent about him neither defending him or rejecting him except those who have praised him with some qualifications | |
| Mar 6, 2020 at 23:14 | comment | added | ZAli9 | Thanks for the clarification, I do have a few questions though, regarding mainly claims of Sufism embodying heretical values. Like, al-Hallaj and his statement an-Al Haq, I am Truth. I do understand statements like these and those of Bistami, speaking of how great his Glory is may at the surface level seem blatantly blasphemous, but Sufism claims they carry value, mainly spiritual value. What would a Shia interpret this as, and as I have observed, why would they interpret it as a heretical stance? And if it is one, why is it so? | |
| Mar 5, 2020 at 22:30 | history | edited | infatuated | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
more direct source
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| Mar 5, 2020 at 22:07 | history | edited | infatuated | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 15 characters in body
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| Mar 5, 2020 at 22:00 | history | answered | infatuated | CC BY-SA 4.0 |