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The Wikipedia article on "Predestination in Islam" contains the (unsupported) assertion that:

There are only two groups who represent the extremes regarding Qadar and are considered outside the fold of Islam.[by whom?] Al-Jabiriyah are of the opinion that humans have no control over their actions and everything is dictated by Allah…

This site is not for sectarianism and I am not asking for anyone's opinion about whether Al-Jabiriyah should be considered 'outside the fold of Islam'. What I am asking is whether the Wikipedia article is accurate to assert that it is 'de facto' true that they are. Ideally I'd like an answer from someone who identifies as Al-Jabiriyah though I realise that might not be realistic.

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  • It would have been better to ask about the topic of predestination itself. Al Jabriah is not a sect , it may refer to a group of people with such belief and all sects can have people with such belief. Moreover wiki does not cite (by whom?) hence that statement is a null statement. By default all Muslims are in Islam
    – Islam
    Sep 17, 2013 at 10:55
  • @Islam I do indeed have other questions, I wanted to understand this first :) Feel free to edit my question to improve the terminology; Wikipedia uses the word 'group'.
    – user3208
    Sep 17, 2013 at 11:01
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    As the wiki article itself notes: by whom? Pretty much every sect is considered outside the fold of Islam by some other (extremist) sect.
    – System Down
    Sep 17, 2013 at 18:42
  • @System Down interesting point, I suppose I'm asking whether 'mainstream' groups (Sunni, Shia, …?) do.
    – user3208
    Sep 17, 2013 at 18:50

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The Jabriyyah were an early short-lived group in Islamic history. There is no doubt that they were outside the fold of Islam due to the extremism of their beliefs regarding qadr (predestination). Essentially they claimed that everything we do is done by Allah and that we have no free will. The immediate corollary, of course, is that we can't and won't be held accountable for anything, whether in this life or the next. This goes against clearly established concepts of accountability, judgment, and mankind's ability to have choice. For example, here is one verse talking about choice:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." (Al-Qur'an, Surat al-Kahf, Ayah 29)

The rejection of Jabriyyah beliefs is something that all major schools of theology in Sunni Islam are in agreement on.

The Jabriyyah quickly lost any following they had after the tyrant Hajjaj caused damage to the Ka'bah during one of his wars. They questioned whether Allah would intend damage to His sacred place and it didn't make sense that Hajjaj had no choice in the matter. The Jabriyyah later evolved into yet another deviant sect in early Islam, the Jahmiyyah.

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  • How does al jahamiya have such beliefs? you need to cite it
    – Islam
    Sep 24, 2013 at 17:44
  • @Islam - Jahm b. Safwan was one of the propagators of the Jabriyyah and this concept was one of at least three main innovations he tried to introduce in the aqeedah of the Muslims (no free will, belief is only in the heart, and one more I forget at the moment).
    – Ansari
    Sep 24, 2013 at 19:34
  • @Ansari, my understanding of sectarianism is that the 73 sects predicted by the Prophet(SAWS) will not be clear-cut sects; rather, our early scholars have done very good work in identifying traits of each sect and labeling them. So even if a jama'ah does not claim to be jabiriyyah or jahmi, if they subscribe to these beliefs they do have a streak of that. This is regardless of whether the original group that thought up and promulgated the idea is extant today or not.
    – Najeeb
    Sep 25, 2013 at 6:05
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this question is takfiri question no , ofcourse jabiriyahs are muslims , there were many sufi saints who believed in total predestination , there is an arabic book called " alkashf an hakikat al sufya " there is quote in this book by an Egyptian saint his name morsi al abbass he said that " one day another sufi saint came to my home i found him having sex with my maid then leaving my home and walking on water i was puzzled and asked him , what is that ie sex with my maid ? the muslim sufi saint replied and said ' this is God's decree upon me " then morsi al abbass asked : and what is that ie walking in water ? the muslim sufi saint replied " this is God's gift upon me " . so from this we can understand that al jabiriyah beliefs existed among some muslim mystics .

so al jabiriyah are muslims , and anyway no one has the right to say this isn't muslim or this is outside the fold of islam.

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    What some Muslim may or may not have done is not a source of evidence for Islam itself. As for not having the right to say something, the Qur'an is a criterion to judge between right and wrong.
    – Ansari
    Dec 11, 2013 at 16:00
  • I'm not asking whether they are muslims, I'm asking whether the Wikipedia article is accurate to assert that it is 'de facto' true that they are "outside the fold of Islam" by mainstream groups.
    – user3208
    Dec 11, 2013 at 20:45

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