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I read an answer to a question called "Scientific conflicts in respect to the Quran" and the user stated that the person who is reading is misunderstanding the Quran or there is a gap in science that we dont know of yet.

Then another user in the comments said there was a problem with the whole science in the Quran thing. He said this: "Your two points in the beginning demonstrate exactly what the problem with the science-in-the-quran narrative is: those two points when applied to any text whatsoever will always leave the text in some state of "yeah this is true". If you take the Greek myths and "reason" about them with the approach "either what I think I know about reality is wrong, or I misunderstood the Greek myths", then you will also conclude that they are completely true - yet you don't, because that is ridiculous. Ironically, your quote of Popper even tells you that that approach is dishonest and biased. "

What is the answer to this problem with science in the Quran?

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    I guess you are referring to this post. Well qur'an is not a science book anybody claiming otherwise is wrong. Scientific theories may change over time the qur'an is intended to be eternal if a scientific theory would change, what would that mean if we "proved" it as confirm to the qur'an?
    – Medi1Saif
    May 20 '20 at 9:39
  • I understand that but it still doesnt answer the question or at least what the user said. Often the science in the quran is evidence but then the user above showed why the evidence may nott be reliable if thats the correct way of saying it
    – Yakoub Ali
    May 21 '20 at 9:40
  • Yes but the thing the user has said hasnt been answered. Also it seems to me like a lot of the rulings are for back then even though its supposed to be infinite.
    – Yakoub Ali
    May 21 '20 at 9:51
  • Well I don't regard his post as an answer. It's up to him to explain himself.
    – Medi1Saif
    May 21 '20 at 9:53
  • I was talking about what the user said in the question. IF we use the logic about the Greek thing that he said then basically all science in the Quran is just unreliable. I know the quran isnt a book of science but for a lot of people science is evidence for belief.
    – Yakoub Ali
    May 21 '20 at 10:05
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In summary, this objection has (some) merit to it, and the common way of using "science in the Quran" or "scientific miracles" to provide evidence for Islam is faulty. In the same way, the anti-Islam arguments of scientific faults in the Quran are extremely faulty.

In this answer, I will explain why they are both faulty and an alternative way of proving that Islam is true with science if someone really wants to stick with science.

What are the proofs of Islam other than scientific?

Due to some factors like famous dawah personalities concentrating on them and due to the popular nature of science today, people think scientific arguments are the strongest (if not only) argument for Islam. This is far from the case.

I do not like the use of science to prove Islam for several reasons. Partly due to the faultiness of the actual arguments used (as will be shown) and partly due to the fact that science is ever-changing.

There are much clearer proofs of Islam. Among them are prophecies, miracles, the Quran and its challenge, and more. Some more resources: Collection of Articles & Videos and Short Video Playlist.

The proofs of Islam are many and evident, these scientific arguments are unneeded, and them being faulty is all the more reason to not concentrate much on them.

Common/Popular Formulation of Scientific Miracles

  1. Quran says "ABC."

  2. Modern science confirms "ABC."

  3. It was not possible for the people of the 7th century to know "ABC" (or even guess it).

  4. Hence, the Quran did not come from people. It came from God.

Repeat for a hundred different things.

Issue

On the surface, the logic is fine. It is based on the fact that Allah is all-Knowing and He can never be wrong, which is all well and true.

Indeed, Allah is Knower of the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and earth. Indeed, He is Knowing of that within the breasts. (35:38)

The issue is in the common execution.

Most of these scientific arguments fail in step 1 and/or step 2. The pitfall in step 1 is that the verses do not clearly say "ABC." There is a lot of twisting and turning. The pitfall in step 2 is that the science they are trying to associate with is not that confirmed.

To simplify this, I will call it the issue of vagueness (in the verses) and uncertainty (in the science).

Claimed Scientific Mistakes in the Quran

This is simply the mirror of the scientific argument:

  1. Quran says "ABC."

  2. Modern science confirms "ABC" is false.

  3. Hence, the Quran is not from God.

Repeat for a hundred different things.

Issue

In this case, there is the same issue. The problem of vagueness and uncertainty applies to both most of the scientific miracles claimed and all the scientific mistakes claimed.

So, it is correct for an observer to say: How can you accept the vague and uncertain scientific miracles as evidence for Islam while you reject the claimed scientific mistakes of the same level of vagueness and uncertainty?

We cannot fairly do that. Either we stop using scientific miracles that are so vague and uncertain or we need to accept scientific mistakes of the same level as valid evidences against Islam.

We cannot use vagueness to reach the truth. As Allah says:

Indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all. (10:36)

Science and the Quran

Before I explain what is a better way to use science to prove that Islam is true (although I don't recommend it be the main evidence), first one needs to understand what the exact relation is between science and the Quran.

Reality is true. The Quran is the word of God, so it must be true. If the Quran is true, it can never contradict reality. If something is truly reality, it cannot contradict the word of God.

Science is an interpretation or extrapolation based on reality. Likewise, tafsir is an interpretation or explanation of the Quran.

Some science can be strong, meaning it is so much supported by reality that it is highly likely to be true. Some science can be speculative. Some can be completely definite. Likewise with tafsir: some is strong, some is speculative, and some is definite.

What we can say is that definite science can never contradict definite tafsir of the Quran.

Recommendation

One of the evidences of Islam may be that no definite tafsir ever contradicts definite science.

Whenever there is a claimed contradiction, the issue is almost always that the claimant deceptively pushes one possible tafsir over other possible ones. Never is it a simple case of Quran saying "ABC" definitely and then definite science contradicting it.

The fact that disbelievers use vague verses to try to disprove Islam is even mentioned in the Quran itself:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. (3:7)

This approach has the advantage of dealing with this objection of Greek mythology. Greek mythology clearly says several things that contradict clear science.

So, this is the question left for non-Muslims to answer: how is it that the Quran consistently seems to only clearly state claims that are true? Any other book or mythology always has some claims which are clearly false.

Quran is Not a Science Textbook

You have probably heard the phrase several times before, but it is important to understand what it means. The Quran did not come to fix people's understandings about science. Don't misunderstand me however. Everything the Quran says is true, but it didn't come to teach people the exact understanding of science.

So, even if whatever the Quran says of how the universe works is always true, it does not mean people in the past can't misunderstand it or it can't fit into their understanding well.

A prime example is the fact that the Quran says the sun moves in a path. To some people in the past, it might seem like the Quran is saying the sun revolves around the earth. We know, of course, that this is not true. The sun does move but around the galaxy.

The Quran did not come to correct people's understandings from it revolving around the earth to it revolving around the galaxy. Rather, the purpose of the verse is to highlight Allah's control and schedule and it makes no difference if people understand it according to an incorrect scientific view. However, what the Quran says in essence (that the sun moves) is true.

And Allah knows best.

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The answers here already answer some of your questions. Science facts in the Quran:

Fact #1: Sun Moving in Orbit.

Although it was only a widespread belief in the 20th century amongst the astronomers, today it is a well-established fact that the Sun, the Moon, and all the other bodies in the Universe are moving in an orbit and constantly moving, not stationary as commonly thought before.

In the Quran:

In Surah Al-Anbya, it states “And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming” (Quran, 21:33).

Facts from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Orbit_in_Milky_Way

The Sun orbits the center of the Milky Way, and it is presently moving in the direction of the constellation of Cygnus. A simple model of the motion of a star in the galaxy gives the galactic coordinates X, Y, and Z...

Fact #2: Iron within Meteorites In the Quran:

In Surah Al-Hadid it is written that: “We sent down Iron with its great inherent strength and its many benefits for humankind” (Quran 57:25).

Fact from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_metal#Iron,_nickel_and_cobalt

Most of the native iron on earth is actually not in fact "native", in the traditional sense, to Earth. It mainly comes from iron-nickel meteorites that formed millions of years ago but were preserved from chemical attack by the vacuum of space, and fell to the earth a relatively short time ago. Metallic meteorites are composed primarily of the iron-nickel alloys: taenite (high nickel content) and kamacite (low nickel content). However, there are a few areas on earth where truly native iron can be found.

Now, as to your question about Gog and Magog. Source: Mufti Wilayah Persekutuan, Malaysia. (Original version here | English version in Google Translate here)

Where is the Dzu Al-Qarnain wall building?

Scholars disagree about the position of the wall to several opinions:

Ibn Abbas R.Anhuma and the commentators of the Qur’an say that it (the wall) is located at the crossroads of the Turkish state with Russia, close to the Qauqaz mountains. The Qauqaz Mountains are about 1000 - 3000 meters high. It became a thick, strong and high barrier so that the Gog and Magog could not pierce it because of its thickness and could not climb it because it was very high and slippery. This wall is known as Daryal Gorge/Iberian Gates/Caucasian Gates which is made of iron mixed with copper.

Al-Qasimi said the mooring of the wall was in the Daghestan area, part of Russia located between the cities of Durband and Khuzar. There is a narrow place for so long known as the wall and known as the iron gate. It is a combination of the Qauqaz mountains. The Arabs call it Mount Qaf. Behind him there are two tribes of Gog and Magog. ( Tafsir al-Qasimi , 11/4113-4114).

Dr. Abdul Halim Khidir described the nature of the Qauqaz mountains on which the walls were built. It is quite high, difficult to climb, and there is no road except for one place which is Mudhayyaq Daryal which is one of the places of the river route. The length of the mountain is about 1200 Kilometers and it is considered the highest mountain in all of Europe. There is no way one can cross it except through Daryal’s journey. (See Dzu al-Qarnain by Yusuf, p. 334 quoted from the book Mafahim Geografia by Khidir, p. 296)

We are of the opinion that the above two opinions are the same.

  • Half the scholars argue between the mountains of Afghanistan and India.
  • Two hills among them are Ya'juj wa Ma'juj and are known as Saddani or Sadfani. Located between Azerbaijan and Armenia.
  • There are opinions mentioning, it is located behind the Turkish State. (See al- Raudh al-Mi'tar , pp. 308-311 and also Atlas Al-Hadith al-Nabawi by Dr. Shauqi Abu Khalil, pp. 215)

We are inclined to the first and second opinions and we feel the other opinions are actually almost the same except that say on the Indian border.

More scientific facts in the Quran: https://themuslimvibe.com/faith-islam/13-scientific-facts-in-the-holy-quran

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Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian. (Surah Al Hijr Verse 9)

So how it is guarded? Millions of muslims memorise Quran flawlessly. Book has same version for all muslims. We cant see such kind of examples for any other type of book. So comparing myths with Quran is not correct approach. Remember Muslims also believe on Hadith but not all Hadith are authentic though lot of research has been done on Hadith as well.

Science has theories which prove wrong after sometime and replaced with new theories. In Quran, Allah openly challenged Mankind

"O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah ]." Surah Rehman (Ayat 33)

Does science know where are Gog Magog? They are on earth and have huge population but science is unable to explore them yet means science is yet to fully explore the earth. Where is Daggal (jews messiha)? He is on earth but does science knows where is he?

Science is just exploring what Allah has created thousands of years ago. For non muslims everyone who some specialty is god like wrestling god. But for muslims God is one and

"And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein" (Surah Qahf -Ayat 16)

This is unimaginable power: listening every living thing all the time. Science cant do it. Science inventions like robots have hands, ears, nose etc which it borrows from God's creativity. Science will only increase its fear more it explore about God and its power.

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  • Im sorry but you didnt answer the question. Also about the gog and magog thing, do you have any evidence that all land on the Earth hasnt been explored. Also if im correct they live in a huge wall or something but if the wall really is huge how have we not been able to find it
    – Yakoub Ali
    May 21 '20 at 9:43
  • For me the evidence is Surah Rehman Ayat i have mentioned in my comments above. gog magog live behind some wall created by Prophet Zulqurnain and they are in huge numbers so definately there is some place on earth which is huge and unexplored by science just like after some time they discover some new species
    – Ayaz
    May 21 '20 at 11:14
  • Yes but majority of the Earths surface aside from the arctic/antarctica have discovered unless its underground then i dont know
    – Yakoub Ali
    May 24 '20 at 1:41

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