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Especially regarding quantum indeterminacy.

Adding a bit more info as requested.

"God does not play dice", I quote Einstein. He said those words when in an argument with another scientist that was in support of quantum mechanics while he, himself wasn't. He proposed that there was a hidden variable and that the current understanding of quantum mechanics at that time was wrong.

So I wonder, does Allah S.W.T (may He be glorified and exalted) play dice or do we know of quantum mechanics the way we do right now is because of our limited minds? Something else entirely?

Sorry if I gave any wrong information, I'm not too well-versed in this.

(Due to the comments, my question has shifted to "Must we believe in a hidden variable for quantum indeterminacy?" from "Is Quantum Mechanics Completely Compatible with Islam?")

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closed as unclear what you're asking by goldPseudo♦ Jan 3 '17 at 23:41

Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

  • I'm not well-versed in this either therefore I asked for further information ;) – Medi1Saif♦ Nov 8 '16 at 13:26
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    Einstein explicitly said he doesn't believe in a personal god and used the word only metaphorically, if that's relevant here. Otherwise I have not come across any discussion that islam might be in conflict with quantum theory, do you have any references or is this just a hunch? – G. Bach Nov 8 '16 at 20:02
  • @G. Bach I've never seen any conflict myself but quantum indeterminacy really rubs me wrong as Allah is in control of fate. But perhaps quantum indeterminacy should always be accompanied with quotation marks and that it is always under the control of Allah S.A.W . Makes me wonder if there really is a hidden variable. I always thought he was talking about YHVH. – Zelzuge Nov 8 '16 at 20:16
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    @Zelzuge Einstein definitely did not talk about the abrahamic god, wiki has a lot of references. In my experience, if you look into quotes by famous people that are marshalled in support of one faith or another, you will almost always find the religionists to be lying about what the person said or meant. As for god controlling fate, it is clear in aqida that god creates and sustains everything at every moment; believing he put a power to exist on its own into anything is shirk. – G. Bach Nov 8 '16 at 20:27
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    Yes, I was actually just worrying that believing in quantum indeterminacy would mean that I was indirectly believing that there is something that is not controlled by Allah S.A.W or is existing on it's own as you said. That might just be caused by my own insufficient understanding, though. It doesn't make sense to me if there really isn't a hidden variable, however. But that could just be because of my understanding of quantum mechanics, as it is for the other case. – Zelzuge Nov 8 '16 at 20:37
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A common fake belief about Einstein is to think he was a theist in the usual sense. He was not. His views are closer to atheism. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein

Now, he thought there was a hidden variable because he thought the world could not be build on probabilistic processes. This is viewed by many of his colleagues as a mistake, although they all admire him for other works.

The fact that quantum mechanics is well described by probabilities does not mean that the world is badly made. It does not mean it is well made either. It is just a way of describing it that works very very well.

Trying to find a hidden variable for the sake of god is looking for what Neil degrasse tyson describes as "the god of the gaps ". It means putting god in physical things we don't understand yet. This is a pagan habit. It is like saying "there is thunder, zeus must be angry ", and looking for signs of zeus existence. It was fine, until we understood electricity, and ridiculous now that thousands of planes go over the clouds every day.

If we find such a variable, it will not be the variable of Allah swt. Just a mathematical symbol.

If we find for sure that there is no such variable (and we are having this conviction reinforced with every quantum physics experiment), it doesn't mean anything with respect to islam.

Clarification following comments : maths (mathematical objects) do not exist in the material world, only in our heads and books. For instance, a point, an object with no length whatsoever on any dimension, does not exist. When you say "this table is square" what you mean is "this table reminds me of the mathematical concept of square". Maths are a surprisingly powerful tool to describe and predict the world, but are not part of it. There is a simili debate about it among people whose area of expertise is not the foundation of maths (axiomatisation, logic, ...), but it is wrong to think maths exist (I insist a lot but I think it is necessary ).

So whether we describe quantum mechanics with stochastic mathematical objects (undeterminacy) or not is not relevant to Islam. The world we live in is not made of equations. Some equations fit it well. That is it.

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    This does absolutely nothing to answer the actual question of "Is Quantum Mechanics Completely Compatible with Islam?" – goldPseudo♦ Jan 3 '17 at 23:40
  • @goldPseudo both answers do answer the question, in short mine by saying equations are not the world, and the other by saying there is no undeterminacy in the multiverse theory. Could you be more specific when you say it does not ? – user5751924 Jan 4 '17 at 19:58
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does Allah S.W.T (may He be glorified and exalted) play dice

There is multiverse theory, and all possible versions of the world exist, according to it.

I think that is like something like what may be in Conway's Game of Life if you change its rules and allow a new live cell appear in any one of neighbour cells. Why not?

That playing dice in quantum level is branching, in many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Playing dice sounds something immoral but branching not.

As i know there is nothing contradicting it (quantum indeterminacy and branching) in Quran. But there is a hadith that denies forward branching:

And know that what has passed you by [and you have failed to attain] was not going to befall you,

And what has befallen you was not going to pass you by,

I do not know quantum mechanics well, maybe we can believe in it and think that other branches contradict some unknown physical laws, maybe, random appearance of quantum properties accoring to wave-function are even less random and not random at all.

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  • somebody downvoted my answer, seems yesterday, and now i have tremendously changed my answer after several hours after that, maybe i should delete this and write new answer instead, to get rid of the one downvote, -1 rating – qdinar Jan 4 '17 at 0:08
  • @RebeccaJ.Stones playing dice and quantum indeterminacy are in fact branching. playing dice sounds something immoral but branching not. – qdinar Jan 4 '17 at 8:52
  • i wanted to edit an edit summary thus: quantum indeterminacy, in its usual meaning, is not something that causes world's destruction – qdinar Jan 4 '17 at 17:13
  • This answer does in fact answer the question, since the multiverse theory removes undeterminacy. I hope commentators review their votes. – user5751924 Jan 4 '17 at 19:34

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