I found the following saying of Umar RA , is this authentic and is it applicable even today? :

“There is no Islam except with jama’ah, and no jama’ah except with imarah (leadership), and no imarah except with ta’ah (obedience).”

Also please let me know whether the saying is sahih hadith and is it even found in any reliable books and are there any other related hadith which support or refute this ?

Also if possible give the context in which this was said.


Since it's a saying of Umar (mowquf), we cannot take it as Islam because it's not revelation from Allah and there are no other reports reaching to the Prophet.

It's recorded in Sunan ad-Darimiy سنن الدارمي =

َ أَخْبَرَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ هَارُونَ، أَخْبَرَنَا بَقِيَّةُ، حَدَّثَنِي صَفْوَانُ بْنُ رُسْتُمَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ مَيْسَرَةَ، عَنْ تَمِيمٍ الدَّارِيِّ، رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهُ، قَالَ: تَطَاوَلَ النَّاسُ فِي الْبِنَاءِ فِي زَمَنِ عُمَرَ رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهُ، فَقَالَ عُمَرُ: " يَا مَعْشَرَ الْعُرَيْبِ، الْأَرْضَ الْأَرْضَ، إِنَّهُ لَا إِسْلَامَ إِلَّا بِجَمَاعَةٍ، وَلَا جَمَاعَةَ إِلَّا بِإِمَارَةٍ، وَلَا إِمَارَةَ إِلَّا بِطَاعَةٍ، فَمَنْ سَوَّدَهُ قَوْمُهُ عَلَى الْفِقْهِ، كَانَ حَيَاةً لَهُ وَلَهُمْ، وَمَنْ سَوَّدَهُ قَوْمُهُ عَلَى غَيْرِ فِقْهٍ، كَانَ هَلَاكًا لَهُ وَلَهُمْ "

There are two narrators that are causing an issue.

بقية who isn't thiqa and is mudallis. There's a great deal of controversy over him as to accepting his reports.

عبد الرحمن بن ميسر who was declared as unknown by Ali al-Madani.

Besides these two, the rest are good. But again, since it's a saying of Umar it can't be taken as Deen.

waAllaho alim

  • Jazakallah khairan, I am amazed from where are you able to get this info! (please give links) who is thiqa \not thiqa also has to be substantiated\proof. anyways please complete the answer which asks whether the meaning of saying of Umar RA holds true or not I.E other similar hadith.
    – user4841
    Jul 7 '14 at 0:18

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